Education and Skills Reform Ministerial Group minutes - November 2024

Attendees and apologies

Attendees:

• Jenny Gilruth MSP, Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills
• Graeme Dey MSP, Minister for Higher and Further Education and Minister for Veterans
• Councillor Tony Buchanan, COSLA Spokesperson for Children and Young People
• Professor Graham Donaldson, Honorary Professor (School of Education), The University of Glasgow
• Margaret Farragher, CEO, Joint Council for Qualifications
• Douglas Hutchison, Executive Director Education, Glasgow City Council
• Alison Murison, Aberdeen Grammar School
• Grahame Smith, Chair of Careers Collaborative and former GS STUC
• Professor John McKendrick, Professor, School for Business and Society Glasgow Caledonian University, Commissioner for Fair Access
• Sir Paul Grice, Vice Convener of Universities Scotland and Principal of Queen Margaret University
• Liz Connolly, Principal and Chief Executive, West College Scotland
• Claire Macpherson, Director, Universities Scotland
• Andrea Bradley, Educational Institute of Scotland
• Clare Hicks, Director of Education Reform
• Shirley Laing, Director of Lifelong Learning and Skills

Apologies:

• Guch Dhillon, HMIE (post meeting)

Guests:

• Kamran Durrani, Head of Skills Planning Policy, Lifelong Learning and Skills
• Emma Sinclair, Head of School Qualifications Unit, Education Reform Directorate

Secretariat:

• ​​​​​​​Pauline Hendry, Education Reform Programme Management Office

Items and actions

Welcome and apologies

The Chair welcomed members to the meeting of the Education and Skills Reform Ministerial Group.

Update on education and skills reform

Clare Hicks outlined for members the ambition of education and skills reform. Key achievements and future milestones from a shared Education and Skills Reform timeline were highlighted by Clare and Shirley Laing.

Education Reform

• the Education (Scotland) Bill is continuing to be considered by Parliament with a series of evidence sessions having taken place. Stage 1 is expected to be completed in December, with Stage 2 set to begin in early 2025
• the Scottish Government response to the Independent Review of Qualifications and Assessment (IRQA) was set out in September 2024. The actions on qualifications reform, outlined by Ms Gilruth, seek to achieve a balance between ambition and action that is deliverable given the resources available, and the post-Covid challenges being faced in our schools. This work will be carried out alongside work on the Curriculum Improvement Cycle, with both elements now forming part of the programme
• the new Centre for Teaching Excellence is progressing well and is key to supporting and enhancing pedagogical underpinning of learning and teaching. A competitive process is underway to appoint a host from the university sector, which will be confirmed by the end of 2024
• the work being undertaken across the programme addresses the Programme for Government commitment to “Reforming our national education bodies to drive improvement”. This includes the reform of Education Scotland to have a primary focus on the curriculum, the Centre for Teaching Excellence, and the replacement of the Scottish Qualifications Authority with Qualifications Scotland, and the creation of a new independent inspectorate – all tasked with raising standards
• a Digital Strategy, due to be delivered in December, will set out the high-level digital service capabilities that will support the services and functions of new and refocussed national education organisations
• work will continue on transition delivery in advance of new and refocussed bodies being in place in Autumn 2025

Post School Education and Skills Reform

• there is a commitment within the Programme for Government to introduce a Bill to simplify the post-school funding body landscape. The consultation process has completed, and results are being analysed in advance of preparation for the next steps. Preparation of the outline business case for simplification of the post-school funding landscape is progressing in tandem
• work continues on another Programme for Government commitment to lead a new, national approach to skills planning and work with partners to strengthen regional approaches
• options for future skills planning processes are being developed for March next year
• work is underway on apprenticeship reform, which needs to align to industry needs. This work will be undertaken over several years

Kamran Durrani, Head of Skills Planning Policy in Lifelong Learning and Skills Directorate provided a brief update on the progress and next steps of National and Regional Skills Planning. A below the line paper was appended to the agenda providing more detail on the drivers and purpose of this work.

The two elements of skills planning were set out for members, the first being at a national level. This is a new process for skills planning led by Scottish Government. The mechanism for this does not currently exist within Scottish Government and has previously been carried out at a sectoral level. The second element is strengthening regional skills planning allowing for flexibility according to priorities identified by regional actors, and building on existing best practice. This aspect of skills planning is inherently linked to the future SG-led national processes to be put in place.

Progress to date:

• creation of a policy unit in Scottish Government to develop skills planning policy and deliver related reforms
• extensive engagement and collaboration on the initial approach across Scottish Government and with key stakeholders
• business case development has commenced
• draft guidelines for developing an approach for regional skills planning are being discussed with stakeholders

Next steps:

• options identified for future skills planning models by March 2025
• announcement of chosen option, after economic, financial and management cases are developed, is expected in late 2025
• implementation of new approaches will take place from early 2026 onwards

Mr Dey highlighted misrepresentation of the perception of skills shortages when what is actually meant is labour shortages.  There is growing evidence of a lack of individuals who are available and interested in taking up certain roles and professions. Members discussed that the challenge in filling labour market gaps lies in making them attractive to people and there is clearly a role for individual sectors in attracting and retaining an appropriately skilled and rewarded workforce.

Members noted that the impact of education reform on classrooms will lie in the relationship and collaboration between Education Scotland, HMIE and the Centre for Teaching Excellence. For example, both Education Scotland and HMIE could draw attention to research evidence coming from the Centre for Teaching Excellence, and getting all three bodies to work closely together is extremely important. It was agreed by Ms Gilruth that the approach to education reform is to work with the teaching profession to pilot where improvements can be made and avoid overloading the profession.

Liz Connolly expressed interest in being further involved in the work on skills planning, particularly around strategic identification and how to stimulate demand in subject matter experts for skills needed to develop the strategic ambition.

Paul Grice noted the importance of continuity and clarity as the national skills planning work develops. He offered to work with Scottish Government to mitigate risks in this regard and to assist in making the transition as smooth as possible.

School leaver destinations

Emma Sinclair, Head of School Qualifications Unit, Education Reform Directorate delivered a presentation on school leaver destinations.

After presenting data to inform the picture relating to school leavers, three questions were posed to members, as below:

• does the system have sufficient understanding of those school learners in the highest risk categories of not entering a positive destination, so that interventions can be tailored?
• what more can be done to ensure that leavers are making positive transitions?
• do the education and post-school systems work well enough together to support school leavers?

The Chair expressed concern about the increasing numbers of S4 leavers and commented on the statistic that 28% of S4 leavers (from a survey conducted by Skills Development Scotland) suggested that careers advisers were a factor in affecting their decision to leave school.  

Mr Dey and Grahame Smith expressed a desire for more detail on the data provided that shows that the advice of career support impacts on decisions of S4 leavers.

Action: Schools Qualifications Unit to provide further detail on the data about the role

of career advisers in relation to S4 leavers.

Andrea Bradley expressed concern that if the number of S4 leavers continues to

grow and becomes a trend, it would suggest that comprehensive education is not

meeting the needs of a significant cohort of young people, but noted it was a

complex situation.

Other factors discussed included that some young people do not have a sense of belonging in school, and the impact of the pandemic on learners needs to be fully understood.

Alison Murison noted that a major issue in schools is the training and recruitment of technology related subject teachers, which is restricting the breadth of the curricular offer for some young people.

It was suggested that there needs to be a pathway for learners who have left education early but change their minds – it needs to be easier for them to re-enter education. The Chair suggested that she would be open to considering relevant pilot work in this area.

Margaret Farragher suggested that more qualitative information is required, and that courses need to motivate pupils. She queried whether this a role within Education Scotland’s remit, in terms of monitoring feedback. The Chair confirmed that the refocussed Education Scotland will have a renewed focus on curriculum, but also improvement.

Members also discussed a need for better targeting of resources in areas of higher deprivation, and models for achieving this should be explored. Some disengagement can be explained by young people’s lack of motivation in learning and not being exposed to experiential learning.

John McKendrick commented that the data speaks to the fundamental pressures on young people, which is a concern. A more holistic approach is required in schools, looking at flexible options and opportunities to combine work and study where that is appropriate for individuals. The Chair agreed that there are a range of barriers which deter some young people and adult learners from engaging in education including assessment methods and funding, and she would like to work at pace on opportunities to include more continuous assessment within school qualifications.

Tony Buchanan suggested that further engagement needs to be carried out with S4 leavers to understand more about their economic circumstances. The education maintenance allowance may be a suitable incentive, as well as providing more in terms of vocational focussed education, with a move away from high stakes exams. This point was agreed with by members, who commented that the original intention of the Senior Phase was to be a rich and flexible environment. For some young people, the pressure of S5/S6 is not attractive. Course options should also be considered as a potential reason for learners to leave education – it was suggested that learners not yet ready for a Higher in S5 may be given the opportunity to continue work at Nat 5 level with the option of undertaking Highers or alternative SCQF level qualifications in S6.

Mr Dey noted that Foundation Apprenticeships are successful in Aberdeenshire where the model is delivered in schools and is opening up a range of career options to learners. Headteachers report other attainment has improved, particularly in subjects with previous poor performance, because young people have identified a career path they are motivated to pursue.

Action: Foundation Apprenticeships to be an agenda topic at the next Ministerial Group meeting.

Any other business and close

The Chair thanked members for their contributions and closed the meeting.