Tourism and Hospitality Industry Leadership Group minutes: 29 January 2025

Attendees and apologies

ILG Members Attending:

• Aileen Crawford, Glasgow Life     
• Leon Thompson, UK Hospitality
• Barbara Smith, Industry expert     
• Stephen Duncan, Historic Environment Scotland
• Benjamin Carey, Carey Tourism     
• Victoria Erasmus, Glen Mhor Hotel
• Calum Ross (Online),Loch Melfort Hotel     
• Anna Miller (Online), Highlands and Islands Enterprise
• Carron Tobin, Rural Dimensions     
• Lawrence Durden, Skills Development Scotland 
• Chris Greenwood, Moffat Centre     
• Marc Crothall, Scottish Tourism Alliance 
• Debbie Johnson, IHG Hotels and Resorts     
• Rob Dickson, VisitScotland 
• Joshua Ryan-Saha, Travel Tech Scotland
• Gary Cox, Scottish Government 
• Joss Croft (Online), UKInbound 
• Derek Shaw (Online), Scottish Enterprise
• Judy Rae, OnFife Cultural Trust     
• James Fowlie, COSLA 
• Kat Brogan, Mercat Tours     
• Karen Jackson, South of Scotland Enterprise 
• Kelly Johnstone (Online), The Springboard Charity     
• Richard Lochhead MSP, Minister for Business
• Attending:
• Beth Thoms, VisitScotland
• Graham Morrison, VisitScotland 
• Caroline Cantin, Scottish Government
• Kevin Fallon, Scottish Government 
• Mark Rowley, South of Scottish Enterprise
• Caroline MacFarlane, Scottish Government
• Ethan Hood, Scottish Government    
• Raymond MacIntyre, VisitScotland

Apologies:

• Carolyn Churchill, VisitScotland
• Chris Brodie, Skills Development Scotland 
• Paul McCafferty, Scottish Enterprise
• Andrea Nicholas, Green Tourism 

Bryan Simpson, Unite the Union

Items and actions

Key notes and actions: 
Co-Chair welcome    
Welcome: 

• Marc Crothall offered a warm welcome to Victoria Erasmus, attending her first ILG meeting as an industry member. 
• MC also noted than John Coghill is no longer representing Scottish Government on the group and thanked him for his efforts during his time working with the group.
• MC noted thanks to JF for providing the venue for today.
• Apologies noted as above. 
• MC outlined the agenda for today’s meeting. 

October THILG Meeting

• No amends, October meeting minutes approved by the group. 

Updates / actions from October meeting: 

• Questions have been shared and finalised, following work with Ipsos for best practice. 
• Fair Work inquiry - SG to confirm next steps to the group in due course. 
• Follow up complete regarding a data source / figure for people working in tourism.
• Follow-up collated with Scottish Government’s Rural Team – in particular Analyst work in relation to data and insights.
• Ask of Mission leads to submit their priority suggestions, to inform future engagement and meeting plan has been submitted – there will be an opportunity to discuss Forward Plan later today.

Recruitment:

• MC noted that all current members should have received their renewal letters and asked they let us know if they have not yet.
• MC highlighted that recruitment is now open until 2nd March.

Scotland Outlook 2030 Tracker Update
Scottish Government and VisitScotland analysts joined the meeting to present an update on development of the tracker. Key points highlighted were:

• Recap of the project, highlighting key stages and progress to date. Indicating that were at the stage of finalising the tracker and beginning logic modelling sessions.
• Benchmarking the SO2030 Tracker in comparison to other NTOs & ILG Performance Measurement and finding that we are leading in regard to the development of a strategy-based indicator tracker.
• The design overview was presented, with first visuals of how the final tracker will look. This includes elements such as:

1. Performance at a glance – providing an overview of performance against all objectives.
2. Performance by theme – covering detailed performance for each Strategic Priority.

 

• Next steps were noted as being:

1. The tracker will be published on VisitScotland.org in March.
2. Continuing work to address data gaps:

• community impacts: Scottish Household Survey now in the field
• carbon emissions: scoping out with Mission group and ClimateXChange

 

• To hold Logic Modelling sessions to:

1. to demonstrate how the Missions actions deliver on SO2030 strategic objectives
2. to identify indicators to track outputs of the Missions actions 

 

• Proud and Valued People Logic Modelling will take place on 24th February; Net zero will be February/March (date TBC).
• Technology to Enable; Community-led Tourism; Sustainable Transport – dates are all TBC.

A discussion followed with both general questions and specific points raised in relation to the Scotland Outlook 2030 Tracker.

• MC noted surprise that the analysts did not receive more information from other ILGs, including Food and Drink. He highlighted that Joss Croft might be able to advise on how VisitBritain track their own strategy. He also indicated that it would be great to have the tracker in place for a lunchtime session at the STA Signature Conference on Tuesday 11 March.
• Benjamin Carey – Described the tracker as magnificent and indicated he looked forward to seeing it working in action. Following up by asking do we see a lead entity for looking at the results and making changes? Who in the tourism industry should address this?
• Rob Dickson followed up to indicate that the tracker is now in a very solid place and sees the development as a real positive. He indicated that the long-term view is helpful and highlighted BC’s question as making a strong point. The group need to be engaging with a mid/long-term view, looking more at strategy and focusing in on some of the challenges and opportunities that the tracker indicates. He cautioned the group not to underestimate the significance in this providing a stepping off point.
• Aileen Crawford highlighted the potential of the tracker as a powerful communication tool and asked about the time period that the data covers.
• Raymond MacIntyre responded to highlight the varying timeframe of the data, and highlighted that these are the most up to date indicators.
• Judy Rae commented that it is worth considering what the ILG is currently doing against KPIs and targets, and whether they can use this tool to start influencing. Comms at STA conference is important, with people looking for something tangible from the ILG. Not just on policy, but from an advocacy POV.
• Kat Brogan followed up to ask if there is a comms plan behind this.
• MC indicated that the Secretariat would develop the comms plan.
• RD indicated that we should be in a good space to release this in March. VisitScotland’s Destination Development team will be engaged closely in this work, engaging with businesses and sectors, with even more comprehensive coverage than we have managed previously.
• MC has suggested this would be worth consulting with industry reps on.
• Debbie Johnson highlighted that the tool will be very valuable to industry.
• Stephen Duncan raised a concern that figures might skew overtime, due to unprecedented costs.
• Carron Tobin raised issues relating to third sector data being unavailable. 
• Caroline MacFarlane responded that the number of social enterprises can potentially be identified, but not sure if this data will fit the same indicator. Small Business survey have added a question, so might be something better. How much do you prioritise community engagement. Not static, adding as new indicators become available.
• Kelly Johnstone flagged that this is only as good as the data going in, recognising challenges in rural areas.
• JC highlighted that the Visitor Economy Advisory Council may be interested in this work.
• BC closed the session by highlighting that the admission of gaps in the data is encouraging and indicates transparency.

ACTION – RM, CM and Ethan Hodd to progress with the development of the tracker for launch in March. Graham Morrison to develop the comms plan and share resources with the group.
RM, CM and EH to deliver Logic Modelling Sessions prior to the next meeting.

Updates from Mission Leads

Technology to Enable
JRS updated on the mission:

• Acknowledgment that the group are driving toward better regional data and comprehensiveness. Current data does not cover the full population.
• A date has been set for the launch of the Scottish Tourism Data Partnership. Cat Leaver, VisitScotland’s Director of Strategy and Competitive Intelligence will present.
• Looking to Canada as an example, which holds top level, reasonably comprehensive data for the visitor economy. 
• Problem solving requires frequent access to data and the missions that are linked through tech, need to have high quality data for things like trip planners. 
• JRS continues to work with two Scottish tourism companies that are active in the AI marketplace.
• JRS to take part in the STA Conference, hosting AI workshops that seek to make real, solutions for businesses.
• Currently looking to key global leaders to share expertise. 
• Tech subgroup is due meet in the next quarter.

Proud and Valued People
KJ and Lawrence Durden updated on the mission:

• Skills Toolkit for businesses and employers is launching on 20th Feb, LD to send invite to the group members. 
• A two-year piece of work to update modern apprenticeship frameworks was undertaken and has produced a simplified set of frameworks that training providers have started using.
• HIT Scotland have launched latest scholarships, including high-level leadership development training. 
• The Skills group continues to meet, with focus currently on Scotland’s migration services. 
• We continue to see Universities and Colleges developing short courses that are focused on the tourism and hospitality industry, including Glasgow Caledonian University and Edinburgh Napier University.
• Skills group engaged Lifelong Learning and Skills directorate at Scottish Government and have invited them to speak at the next group meeting in February.

MC added that he and Emma Simpson from Gleneagles, held conversations with two officials at Scottish Government relating to graduate apprenticeships and will ensure conversations are joined up alongside the mission group.

Community Led Tourism

CT updated on the mission:

• The Press Pause Project Pilot is now in the evaluation stage, using social and economic data.
• A funding bid has been made through SCOTO to the SSEN Regional Fund.
• Efforts continue to change mindsets in the industry, including updating the Press Pause paper and mindset shift being a core theme at the SCOTO conference.
• SCOTO entered a partnership with Bolder on building networks, which is gaining a lot of traction. 
• There is scope for discussions and partnership building with Circular Communities Scotland.
• Consideration is being given as to whether B-Corp status can be mapped, to demonstrate the number of businesses elevating that side of their operation.
• SCOTO Conference will take place in 27 and 28 February in Montrose.  
• A national 3-day regenerative tourism event is being planned to take place in Birnam in mid-October 2025

MC added that it would be useful to understand the outcomes from the Angus and Wester Ross Biosphere Bolder pilot projects when available.
Tourism Month

MC updated on the programme for Tourism Month, taking place across February/March 2025, including:

• ScotHot 2025 – 26/27 February
• The Scottish Tourism Alliance Parliamentary Reception – 4 March
• The Signature Conference Workshops – 10 March
• The Signature Conference Evening Gathering- 10 March
• The Signature Conference – 11 March

Minsters’ Remarks
MC opened by thanking Mr. Lochhead for his support of the tourism and hospitality industry over twenty-seven years of service as an MSP, including fifteen years in Government, following the announcement that he will step down at the next election in 2026.

Mr Lochhead’s remarks incorporated the following:

• Data is a major challenge, and the Scotland Outlook 2030 Tracker is an excellent piece of work, that provides a good basis to benchmark ourselves. He will be looking to those areas marked as red as a guide to where interventions are required.
• The Scottish Government Budget is now going to pass, despite a Minority Government being in office currently, providing much needed stability for the business community. The budget includes an extra £2 million for VisitScotland to address visitor spread and international connectivity. For infrastructure development, there is an additional £4 million for RTIF. 
• In looking to the longer term and internationally, there are notable challenges relating to cruise and overtourism in other destinations. In meeting representatives from the tourism and hospitality industry in Singapore, it was easy to notice that the challenges experienced in Southeast Asia are exactly the same as the issues experienced by the industry in Glasgow.
• Events continue to make a huge contribution to Scotland’s economy, and the Open returning St Andrews Old Course is a positive development among many more. £1.3 billion has been generated by the last ten Opens in Scotland, with each one at St Andrews worth over £300m to the Fife economy. 
• Work is required on domestic visitors, with overseas currently going well. Some issues are out of our control, but we will continue to work with UK Government, to develop a positive message on UK tourism.

The Minister allowed time for questions following his remarks:

• BC asked how committed the Scottish Government are to sustainability.
• Richard Lochhead responded to say just as committed as ever. A lot happening on NetZero and natural capital. There are concerns regards geo-politics, and how changes can make it more expensive to adopt net zero, but we must ensure this does not derail us.
• SD highlighted the return to whisky production at the Dallas Dhu distillery and asked for a celebration to support, of some sort.
• RL responded to highlight his enthusiasm for the idea as the constituency MSP.
• MC closed the session by highlighting that Scotland remains a high demand, attractive destination, but that it is hard to make profit. He remains sure that RL will support the groups ambition and belief in the dispersal of the tourism pound in a responsible way.

Deep Dive on Sustainable Transport – Focus on Rail
The session opened with a presentation from Bill Reeve, Director of Rail and Sarah Cooper, Rail Futures Manager from Transport Scotland. The slides covered the following:

• Rail as an enabler – in delivering on the First Minister’s four priorities for government and the National Transport Strategy 2, as well as highlighting the spread of the network into communities across Scotland.
• Rail as a promoter – Highlighting the success of rail in promoting Scotland as a destination, including the impact of the Borders Railway in growing the region’s economy and the importance of partnership working.
• Rail as a product – Covering the Sleeper Train, great scenic rail journeys, highlights like the Forth Bridge and Jacobite steam train and the potential of charter trains in raising the profile of a destination.
• Switzerland – as a representation of the north star withing European transport, due to an impeccably coordinated system, the value of the service (including a free airport journey with your accommodation) and excellent information provision.
• Where next? – Discussing the high potential for tourism growth across Scotland in collaboration with the rail network, the Stranraer line was highlighted as a specific example, due to high capacity on the trains and planned investment in the areas tourism offering.

Next, we were joined by Hannah Ross, CEO of Scottish Rail Holdings, who presented on the following:

• Who are SRH – setting out their role in strategic leadership, oversight and advocacy for the development and delivery of Scottish rail services.
• Strategic Direction (2025 – 2030) – highlighting their four priorities:

1. Reduce Inequalities
2. Take Climate Action
3. Deliver Inclusive Economic Growth
4. Improve our Health & Wellbeing, and Safety

 

• How do we succeed? – establishing a range of options to deliver on SRH’s role in enabling ScotRail and Caledonian Sleeper connect people and places. Including:

1. Facilitating investment in rail infrastructures.
2. Work in collaboration with a range of key stakeholders.
3. Deliver net zero passenger rail services by 2040 and Rail System by 2045.
4. Work across the Sustainable Scotland Network, to engage the public sector in climate action and the impact of rail.
5. Participate in the Climate Ready Infrastructure Forum.

This was followed by a presentation delivered by Alasdair Smart, Tourism Manager at ScotRail:

• Key National Strategic Priorities – these being NTS2, Future of Public Transport (Fair Fares), Scotland Outlook 2030 and NSET.
• Strategic Objectives – indicating how transport supports tourism through decarbonisation, removing barriers to travel, investment in infrastructure and introduction of new ticketing and technology. ScotRail’s new fleet was highlighted specifically as a major development that facilitates an excellent travel experience, whilst reducing operating costs.
• Opportunities and Barriers – with positives including national coverage, great scenic rail journeys and rail as a social experience. 
• What does success look like – covering a range of potential outcomes, with the headline being more people are travelling by train, all year round.
• How can you help? – Highlighting the role the ILG can provide as leaders, as well as how rail can work in partnership with the industry as a whole. 

The final presentation of the session was from Steven Marshall, Head of Sales and Marketing at Caledonian Sleeper. 

• Who we are – introducing key stats for the service and highlighting the cities and towns that they serve across Scotland.
• Where do our guests come from – indicating that 80% of their customers are using the service for the first time and that there is an 80:20 split between domestic and international.
• Where and how do we promote – highlighting key campaigns and partnership working. 
• Future challenges – including seasonality, future markets and sustainable connections beyond the station.

Following the presentations a discussion was held:

• MC opened the discussion, noting that we appear to be ahead of the RoUK in rail development, but there are still significant challenges relating to price and competition from airlines. 
• SD contributed that many of the 360 HES sites are accessible by train, but more is required on connectivity so that tourists don’t feel abandoned at the station and also highlighted the opportunity to provide further enhancements to 1st Class travel as being a potential revenue driver.
• MC added that interest in driving is waning in younger generations, so their may be a natural shift onto rail services that occurs.
• AC highlighted urban specific challenges, particularly around major events and the night-time economy and the potential for rail to add value by offering later services. The West Coast mainline was also raised, particularly issues Carlisle cutting Scotland off from the rest of the network. 
• MC supported this, indicating the potential to work with new venues and experiences.
• Alasdair Smart responded that it is useful to think of rail in socioeconomic terms and that it is useful to think of the holistic value of rail, rather than just in cost terms. 
• Hannah Ross backed this, highlighting that the reason we have publicly owned railway operators is to deliver social value. The financial and economic cases can be considered separately, with finance being required and economic impact having a multiplier effect. Transport Scotland control the money to an extent and can take advantage of attitudes in urban policy and the preference for a smaller volume of vehicles.
• Bill Reeve expanded to say that although finances are limited, we do have a well-funded railway in Scotland. A challenge is catering for everyone from backpackers to business travellers, but we deliver this well. It was noted that premiumisation and luxury experiences sell particularly well. The nighttime economy and major events are great for Scottish rail and there is more we can do to make the most of that potential. There is a great deal of agreement with the discussion points raised thus far.
• RD noted that extending the Border’s Railway to Carlisle would be a potential solution in the long term to ensure connectivity. The economic benefit it has contributed thus far has been significant. Selecting the Border’s Railway name for the line is an indication that destination development was a key focus from the outset and tourism focused work played a part in that. More can be done in connecting businesses in the visitor economy to rail, without that we won’t reach our targets on net zero or visitor dispersal. There is a platform to take forward rail revenue and investment and stronger progress can be made.
• SD suggested creating short narratives/case studies around successful rail impacts in the visitor economy might be beneficial. 
• DJ added that the train provides a better environment for both work or relaxing, but see’s unreliable wi-fi as a downside. Noted that many hotels are looking at the Final Mile connection, but perhaps need further support to reach the ideal solution.
• Calum Ross noted that a speed up of the West Coast line would be required in order to beat driving times in the area. Edinburgh to Oban is currently a 4.5-hour journey minimum and reopening the Callander to Oban line would allow a direct connection from Edinburgh. 
• Sarah Cooper noted her work on the Border’s Railway, highlighting its impact and the potential for further development in the short-term. 
• CT brough a community perspective into focus, highlighting that Wick–Thurso-Brora service is slow and unreliable, so the community are reluctant to promote it. Lochalsh have concerns around rail travellers not spending enough time in the area and Glenfinnan obviously faces major challenges. Gorebridge potentially provides an example of a place that could make significant gains from their rail connection, as a hub for those visiting Edinburgh, but looking to stay outside of the city.
• MC added that this raises an important point around creating product within a destination, without disrupting natural environment.
• BC contributed that support and funding for DMOs is key and will continue to be challenging. Measurement posing another significant challenge and noting the £200m value of social tourism. 
• Alasdair Smart indicated that he would share a report on the social value of rail with the methodology behind it. 
• Steven Marshall noted that he would also share documentation from the Fraser of Allander Institute.
• Victoria Erasmus highlighted that the route to Inverness can be challenging, with a switch to bus midway being off-putting to consumers. 
• Hannah Ross responded to indicate that Transport Scotland are pushing really hard to increase the understanding of rail as an end-to-end journey and ensuring this is facilitated wherever possible, although acknowledges there is not an immediate fix.
• MR notes that the biggest opportunity for tourism is to ensure the connection at Carlisle. The Cargo bikes in York are noted as a great example of facilitating final mile travel.
• CT notes that many rural communities have lost their car hire service in recent times, posing a challenge to connectivity.
• MC brought the session to a close, noting that it was excellent and robust discussion and assuring all present that we will continue to maintain momentum. 
• Hannah Ross indicated that the rail presenter group will have a discussion in the first or second quarter of 2025 to discuss the integration of tourism in their strategies.
• Alasdair Smart thanked the ILG for the great opportunity to advocate and influence how we can all work together. Priority is changing perceptions, to think of rail as an opportunity.

ACTION – Rail industry presenters to reconvene and establish next steps. 
Post Deep Dive Discussion
A short discussion was held after the Rail presenters had left the room.

• JR noted that the session marked a mind-set shift, it felt like it opened up an excellent opportunity for further engagement.
• RD highlighted the value in the presenters being genuinely engaged and recognising of the opportunity to engage with the ILG. They clearly appreciated the space to think and discuss strategically.

Future Planning
The session opened with GM and RD presenting a paper introducing ideas for the ILG’s activity in the coming year. The paper outlined the following topics that could potentially be incorporated:

• 14 May

1. VisitScotland’s Corporate Plan
2. Presence of the Scottish Government’s new Permanent Secretary.
3. Mission updates following Logic Modelling sessions.
4. Scotland Outlook 2030 Tracker, following introduction and comms.

 

• 17 September

1. Deep Dive on Data, Innovation and Technology.

 

• 26 November

1. Deep Dive on Community Led Tourism and Net Zero

MC chaired the discussion that followed regarding future planning for the group.

• RD highlighted that there will be an induction for the five new members joining as part of the on-going recruitment process. There is a sense that the missions have brought a rhythm and focus to the group and noted that we are pragmatic as to what can be achieved.
• MC questioned whether we have a clear enough set of precise actions and asked the group if we were now at a point where we should tease out and develop the next set of actions, to look at where we really need to accelerate to shift the dial on our objectives.
• SD added that the Our Place Our Future Strategy integrates well with many of the objectives of the missions, including a role in restoring Scotland’s high streets, both physically and economically, as well as introducing a new business model. 
• MC responded to highlight that we are probably not sighted as a group to key actions taking place and it is worth further considering how can we bring that together.
• RD noted that Public Agencies need to consider what we can present as our vision for 2030 tourism. We are charged with driving forward the visitor economy, so how are we making that happen?
• MC added that keeping the group well-informed will be key in ensuring confidence in progress made against Scotland Outlook 2030 objectives.
• AC responded that SO2030 tracker is a really strong basis and those showing red on the tracker are worthy of a deep dive. This may focus attention on where we can intervene and make a difference.
• VE raised that consideration must be given to community support in line with the SO2030 tracker. This can be a very powerful tool in shaping action.
• Joshua Ryan-Saha asked on the policy and government side, whether we should be doing more to measure from an impact and action point of view.
• MC responded that he see’s the group as being at the top of the triangle, with a strategic focus.
• CT questioned the role of Scottish Enterprise in the group and indicated that Highlands and Islands Enterprise and South of Scotland Enterprise are very engaged. Additionally, we should potentially be looking to begin the development of a new national tourism strategy to take us into 2040.
• MC responded that an interesting starting point might be to score ourselves on the activity done to date and that this should be an action for the next meeting.
• RD indicated that VisitScotland would pick up this action as secretariat. 2025 marks a good time to review, as it is the mid-point of the strategy.
• MC added that a sense check is required for the new national tourism strategy, believes the previous one started development 18 months out.
• BC noted the challenges of developing a shared vision, with the group split between individual members and organisational members, this can lead to a tension relating to ideas, openness and leadership. 
• MC responded that it is a fair challenge and noting that the Deputy First Minister is clear in wanting actions and not talking shops.
• RD added that it is a healthy tension that exists in the group.
• Gary Cox indicated that from Scottish Government’s POV the Tourism & Hospitality ILG is in a good place, there are of course gaps as a sector and strategic discussion regarding where we are, and longer-term vision is always welcome. There is openness to inviting the Deputy First Minister to a future session of the group, to take part in such a discussion.
• MC agreed, saying that we would need to be well-prepared as a group to make it worth the DFM’s time.
• RD indicated that VisitScotland will prepare an agenda for the May meeting as Secretariat.
• Chris Greenwood posited whether we would need a mid-term review.
• CT closed by indicating that a consideration of impacts across island, rural and urban environments would be beneficial.

ACTION – GM to develop measurement mechanism for the next meeting. 
Close of Meeting
MC closed the meeting and thanked all those in attendance.