Single Scottish Estate: Delivery Board minutes - February 2025

Attendees and apologies

• Scott McEwen, Head of Property Services, Scottish Government
• Michael Walker, Senior Finance Business Partner, Scottish Government
• Ian Bowie, Senior Policy Officer, Scottish Government
• Kirsty Lamb, Project Manager, Scottish Government
• David Lyon, Data Co-Workstream Lead, Scottish Government
• Fiona MacDonald, Programme Manager, Scottish Government
• Gordon Alexander, Estate Strategy and Planning Advisor, Scottish Government
• Luke McGuire, Data Co-Workstream Lead, Scottish Government
• Paula Fearn, Principal Estates Surveyor, Scottish Government
• Chris Keay, Head of Security and Business Continuity, Scottish Government
• David Milne, Team Leader - Public Service Reform, Scottish Government
• Neil Milligan, Principal Estates Surveyor, Scottish Government
• Lesley Price, Senior Estates Surveyor, Scottish Government
• Stuart MacQuarrie, Deputy Director of Nature and Climate Change, NatureScot

Apologies

• Louise Gardiner, Head of Digital Estate & Asset Management, NHS National Service Scotland

• Barbara Crowe, Business Manager, Scottish Government

• Stewart Christie, PCS Group Vice President, Scottish Government

• Marco Meoni, Senior Surveyor ,Scottish Government

• Joseph Somevi, Senior Surveyor, Scottish Government

• Lisa Goldie, Head of Programme, Investment and Supply Chain, Scottish Government
• some attenddees have been redacted

Items and actions

Welcome and Introductions

The Chair welcomed all to the meeting, and noted apologies from those unable to attend.

Minutes of Last Meeting and Actions

No Actions carried forward from previous meeting, and no comments received back on the minutes. The minutes of the last meeting were approved.

Programme Update

The Chair gave provided a summary of the Programme to date.  Property Controls guidance will be launched on 19 February 2025, at SSE Public Property Forum. The Chair noted that Communications will be shared with all Board Members at time of launch. Ivan McKee MSP, Minister for Public Finance will be attending the launch. All board members of the Single Scottish Estate (SSE) are welcome to attend.

Comment CK: Indicated that he is not conscious that documents have gone through the Board.

The Chair indicated that some board members had been involved in shaping the Property Controls, including Workplace Division representatives, but apologised if final versions of documents had not reached members following the pre-approval internal consultation process with represented teams.

Location Based Reviews (LBR) will be covered in Agenda Item 4, however the Chair wished to highlight Perth LBR work. The Chair attended a meeting with Perth and Kinross Council (PKC) to update them on Scottish Government (SG) progress on the Perth Office work.  The SSE Project Board, chaired by JB and MA, is an internal SG Board which is looking at feasibility of space for SG Core staff in Perth, including current occupation at Strathearn House and possible co-location at Pullar House. The Minister is being kept informed of  this work.

Comment : We should not lose sight of our different ways of working, and also challenges (e.g. security protocols).

Chair indicated that these comments were very fair and looking at ways of providing a balance.

Comment CK:  It is important as far as possible to have a synergy between different bodies, but also to note that different organisations will have differing security requirements, and it is necessary to facilitate differing requirements.

Chair indicated that levels of security needs to be appropriate. Chair indicated that this point was raised in meeting with PKC. Aware that some bodies will require higher levels of security than others.

Communications and Engagement 

Due to spending controls in government, work on a bespoke website was halted, it is possible it will happen in the future. Scot.Gov webpages continue to be developed with ability to publish minutes. This will continue once Privacy Notice agreement from all members is completed. 

Data

InSite will go live in March 2025, a list of mandatory and voluntary fields completed. MA the Senior Responsible Officer (SRO) wrote to Chief Executives of all Public Bodies in December, to update on and request support for the work of moving from ePIMS to the new property system InSite.

Glasgow Office Project (GOP) 

The Chair referred to the slide in the members briefing pack updating on the GOP. Minister of Public Finance has agreed the options to be appraised in Phase 2. New bodies joining are Nature Scot, Care Inspectorate, and Bord Na Gaidhlig. Co-locations will save public purse c£450,000.

Risks

Some have been identified:

• Capacity Constrains within Property and Construction Division (PCD),
• limitations with the available data,
• and potential risks if co-operation is not gained across programme, Mitigations are being put in place.

Comment FMacD:  Indicated that more information would be added to the pack, on the needs around communication.

Comment: Asked if the Board could have a more interactive session around Risk, suggested the Board should explore further in a future session

FMacD commented: that this is a good point, and it would be added to the agenda for the next meeting.

• Action for next meeting – Discussion on Risk.

PMO Update 

Chair invited FMacD to give an update.

• a new secondee from BE-ST had joined in December 2024, to support the work with LBR’s.  
• Work going on with expanding the work on LBR’s reviews for Edinburgh, Perth and Inverness.
• Looking to be more transparent on reporting the savings that have been made. Support for property controls. Scheduling a Gateway Review for early June.

Chair indicated that he is not aware of anything further regarding dispersal of staff throughout Scotland.

Comment PF: Perhaps adding something about working across Central/Local Government would be a better phrase to use. If aim is to deliver towards net-zero it may not always be possible to deliver financial savings. Perhaps it would be better to concentrate on delivering efficiencies.

Chair noted SSE Savings of £36 million already secured, covers financial savings, cost avoidance in future, dilapidations, etc.

Comment PF: Value for Money should be front and centre, may not provide financial savings, but it will mean being more efficient with the taxpayers money.

Comment MW: Value for Money would be a better way of describing this, as immediate cash savings may not made.

Comment PF: Nothing mentioned about the interoperability of the public sector estate – needs to be one the key principles of programme.

Comment DM: Nothing mentioned about fitness for purpose.

Comment: Community aspect, opportunity for local communities needs to emphasised.

Chair indicated team working on the milestones mentioned, and Key Product Indicators (KPI).  Aiming to bring more to the board within 2 to 3 months. An external advisor has been brought on board to give advice.

Chair noted that there had been a good and thorough discussion of the Summary Update.

Vision and Principles

Chair invited KL to give an update on Vision and Principles.

• From the feedback received at the last set of governance meetings for SSE, a draft vision and set of principles have been created.
• This now needs refined and shaped so they can be actively used to support the SSE programme
• The feedback received from the Delivery Board will be used to update the initial proposed vision and principles, and will then be taken to the Advisory board for their thoughts
• Once everyone has had a chance to review and shape the proposals a final version will be shared.

The updated set of vision and principles, will be taken to the SSE Advisory Board, based on discussions within the Programme Delivery Board. KL shared the proposed information for the Advisory Board which are:

In considering the aims of the programme and the key elements that governance members have highlighted, suggest that the SSE programme vision proposal is:

"Working collaboratively we will transform the public sector property estate, ensuring that it effective and efficient operations for its occupants, delivering benefits, propelling the estate towards net zero and enabling the delivery of excellent public services"

Looking at the aims of the programme to have a more efficient approach to public sector property management, and the key elements that stakeholders have highlighted, a proposed set of SSE principles are:

1. Delivering value for money while reducing and rationalising the public sector property footprint
2. Leveraging data to make informed and evidenced property decisions 
3. Capitalising on opportunities for co-location to achieve rationalisation, create synergies and deliver excellent public services that support communities
4. Provide an adequately accessible, secure, interoperable and resilient estate
5. Efficient use of flexible collaborative space
6. Driving progress towards a net zero estate
7. Ensuring properties are accessible and adaptable
8. Supporting and aligning with the Resource Spending Review (RSR) and Public Service Reform (PSR)
9. Having estates that support business delivery, equality and enhance staff wellbeing

Question GA: what is meant by “meaningful purpose” ?

Comment CK: That meaningful purpose means, “somewhere we do not have a hard outcome”.

Question: Asked whether the issue of silos could be expressed more positively in the SSE plan, working across boundaries.

Comment LP: Agreed with the precious comments.

Comment DM: Agreed with the comments made, towards the delivery of efficient public services, wondered if this is what is meant by a “meaningful purpose”, including savings from moving to net-zero. Does the vision capture all relevant considerations, particularly Ministers previous commitments to dispersing government posts across Scotland ?

Location Based Reviews (LBR)

Chair invited GA to give an update on the Edinburgh LBR:

• Public sector mapping exercise for Edinburgh has taken place. Due to the scale of the public sector in Edinburgh, it is not possible to speak to every public body.
• Engagement work has taken place with different bodies, to understand where they are with their current thinking. Finding that there are a lot of underutilised buildings across the city.
• Too many public sector organisations attempting to backfill with others, when demand does not exist.  Many organisations are at different stages.  Various Justice bodies are consolidating. Scottish Water are finalising a business case to move elsewhere in the public sector estate.

Chair invited NM to highlight any further points:

• On Inverness all relevant data has been collated. There will be a meeting with Inverness stakeholders towards the end of February to discuss what a future public sector estate in Inverness will look like.

Chair indicated papers regarding LBR had been distributed to the board earlier, but not much feedback received. Papers will be updated, and recirculated, and looks forward to receiving feedback on them for sign off.

Governance Review

Chair invited FMacD to give an update.

• Gate 0 review recommended a review of SSE Governance.
• 74% response rate received from board members.
• Results showed themes emerging: -
• • Purpose
  • Roles and Responsibilities
  • Reporting and Communication Channels.
• The next steps will be to issue report with recommendations, which will be shared with board members in March.

Chair indicated that discussions would be set up to discuss governance membership in the next few months. Final structure will be shared with the board via correspondence when Ministerial approval received.

Chair noted that the addition of a business case will be a positive addition to the work that is being done.

There will be another  Gate 0 review in May/June, the chair will be speaking to the internal sponsor soon to confirm arrangements.

Data Update

The Chair invited D to give an update on Data.

• InSite will go live in March 2025, replacing ePIMS.
• As of February 2025, continuing to chip away at 25% of properties that have not gone onto ePIMS.
• A lot of data is between 1-10 years out of date. Engaging with public bodies to update their records. Gave bodies a deadline of end January 2025 to update.
• Slide in members pack shows 30% met deadline.  22% missed deadline but will be ready for March 2025. 16% will need to wait until March 2025, to get onto the system at all.
• Any information carried over to InSite that is incorrect will be corrected on the new system in March.
• Engaging with the UKG InSite team regularly to exchange information on where we are in progress to the change to the new system.
• UKG InSite team surprised and impressed at how many public bodies we have got onboard for the new system.

Chair noted that the Minister continues to be very interested in Data.   

AOB

Chair thanked the Board for their attendance, and asked if there was any further business.

Comment: one member noted that this will be his last Board meeting, as he will be leaving his post before the next Board meeting.  The Chair thanked himfor his contributions and time on the Board.

Comment DM: noted that this will also be his last meeting on the Board, and the Chair thanked him for his time and contributions to the Board.

The Chair brought the meeting to a close, noting that the next meeting will be after Easter, at a date to be confirmed