Police Negotiating Board for Scotland minutes: October 2024

Attendees and apologies

Chair

• Lisa Blackett, Independent

Official Side

• David Algie, Official Side Secretariat
• Lynn Brown, Police Scotland 
• Stuart Houston, Police Scotland
• Pauline Howie, Scottish Police Authority
• Ewen Logie, Police Scotland
• John MacLean, Official Side Deputy Secretary
• Fiona McQueen, Scottish Police Authority
• Sarah Messenger, Official Side Secretary
• Nicky Page, Police Scotland
• Anita Popplestone, Scottish Government
• Caroline Stuart, Scottish Police Authority
• Donna Turnbull, Scottish Government

Staff Side

• Andrew Barker, Scottish Police Chief Officers Staff Association 
• Stewart Carle, Association of Scottish Police Superintendents
• Gordon Cummings, Scottish Police Federation
• Lorna Cunningham, Scottish Police Federation
• Iain Gray, Scottish Police Federation
• Rob Hay, Association of Scottish Police Superintendents
• Brian Jones, Scottish Police Federation
• David Kennedy, Staff Side Secretary
• James McLaren, Scottish Police Federation
• Emma-Louise Smith, Scottish Police Federation
• David Threadgold, Scottish Police Federation

Guest

• Elle O’Kane, Scottish Public Pensions Agency

Secretariat

• Scott McNeil (note)

Items and actions

Welcome

The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting and members gave brief introductions. 

Pensions update

Elle O’Kane (EO), representing the Scottish Public Pensions Agency (SPPA) provided an overview of the SPPA pensions update paper shared with members in advance. The paper covered key areas of interest to members including the McCloud 2015 remedy; employee contribution changes; and consultation on the removal of ill health retirement restrictions. EO agreed to report on back on the issuing and processing of Remediable Service Statements and the support service provided to members to navigate the process.

Members welcomed the update and thanked EO for attending this part of the meeting. 

Minutes from previous meeting on 25 June 2024 

Members approved the minutes of the previous meeting for publication. Secretariat will inform Sides once minutes are published.

Pay update:

• Pay agreement 2023-24

Following a joint procurement exercise, representatives of the Official and Staff Side, along with the Chair appointed the Fraser of Allander Institute (FAI) to carry out the research which formed part of the 2023-24 pay agreement. The Side leads and the Chair are continuing to engage with FAI to ensure that they understand the requirements, context and agree on outputs. 

Stage 1, which relates to wage growth, is currently underway. This will inform the 2025-26 pay negotiations. 

Members were invited to provide feedback on the proposed approach by the FAI to their Side representative by 7 November.

• Pay negotiations 2024-25 

The Official Side made a formal offer of 4.75% on 18 October. Following exchanges between the Sides, the Staff Side wrote to the Chair on 29 October registering a failure to agree and request that move to the conciliation and arbitration process. The Chair provided an update to members noting that the conciliation process has begun and that both Staff and Official Side representatives met separately with the Chair earlier in the day. 

The Chair highlighted that discussions with the Sides during conciliation are in confidence and without prejudice. The Chair thanked the Sides for their positive approach to the process and reiterated that the hope is to reach an outcome which satisfies everyone. There is no fixed deadline for the conciliation process and discussions will continue while there is a willingness on both Sides. If no agreement is achieved the next stage would be for conciliation and arbitration via ACAS.

The Staff Side then provided a response to the 4.75% offer. Staff Side representatives highlighted that officers are feeling extremely undervalued. They emphasised that registering a failure to agree was not a decision taken lightly, nor was the decision to withdraw goodwill and that they remain open to further negotiation to reach a settlement that provides a fair deal for officers. The Staff Side also noted the additional funding that will be made available to the Scottish Government following the UK Government budget.

The Staff Side reiterated that the initial claim of 5.7% was based on inflation over the previous year and that following the initial Official Side offer the Staff Side proposed a second claim of 5.5%, matching that given to NHS Scotland. 

ASPS underlined that the staff associations were speaking with one voice on this issue. ASPS acknowledged that all members want to reach a positive outcome. They highlighted the small distance between the Sides and that want to reach agreement and avoid a potentially difficult period over the coming months.

Staff Side members followed up, reiterating the willingness to work together to reach agreement, the solidarity of officers on this issue and the damage on recruitment, police morale and communities that the current pay offer and a protracted dispute may have.

The Official Side acknowledged the Staff Side perspective and were in agreement to continue discussions to find a resolution through collective agreement. The Staff Side highlighted that they wanted to avoid arbitration if possible. 

The Chair thanked the Sides for their openness and their willingness to continue discussions and explore options that avoid arbitration.

Technical Working Group (TWG)

With the focus on pay, there has not been a TWG meeting since the last PNBS meeting. However, work is ongoing and members continue to meet outside of TWG meetings. The dialogue around pay has helped TWG members consider and understand other elements of police officer terms and conditions which will inform future discussions.

Secretariat to continue to work with TWG members to populate and test the tracker.

Regulations and determinations update

The Police Service of Scotland (Amendment) Regulations 2024 came into force on 4 October 2024.

The Scottish Government are delayed in finalising determinations but aim to be in a position to consult with members soon.

Any other business

No matters raised.

Date of next meeting

PNBS Secretariat is currently scoping dates for 2025 meetings. Members agreed to aim for meetings in March, June and October. Members to provide any dates that are not suitable to the Secretariat by 15 November. Members to also feedback on preferred locations for PNBS meetings in 2025.