Children's Hearings Redesign Board minutes: January 2025

Attendees and apologies

Members

• Laura Caven, COSLA, Co-Chair 
• Brian Taylor, Scottish Government, Co-Chair 
• Neil Hunter, Principal Reporter, Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration
• Elliot Jackson, National Convener, Children’s Hearings Scotland (by teams)
• Lindsey Byrne, Social Work Scotland (by teams)

Officials

• John Urquhart, COSLA
• Tom McNamara, Scottish Government
• Emma Wilson, Scottish Government
• Susan Downes, Scottish Government (secretariat)

Items and actions

Welcome and introductions

Brian Taylor started the meeting acknowledging apologies from Sheriff David Mackie and that the board secretariat will make arrangements for a suitable alternative date.

Action

Secretariat to arrange suitable alternative meeting with Sheriff David Mackie and the Board.

Members agreed the minute of the previous meeting October, and authorised publication on the Children’s Hearings Redesign Board webpage.

Action

Secretariat to publish both sets of minutes from the previous meetings on the Children’s Hearings Redesign Board webpage.

Bill update

​​​​​​​Emma Wilson provided an update on the consultation and the progress made on the development of draft policy instructions.

​​​​​​​The children’s hearings redesign consultation closed in October 2024 after receiving over one hundred responses. The consultation responses have been analysed by the Children and Young People's Centre for Justice (CYCJ) and a first draft has been submitted. Due to the complexity and length of the consultation the draft report is currently 160 pages, so we have asked for a summary document to be produced.

​​​​​​​It is worth noting that not everyone who responded to the consultation answered all the questions. Some of the yes/no responses do not match the text provided so important that too much focus is given to the numerical analysis, key messages need to be drawn from the commentary provided. An embargoed copy of the draft report can be circulated to members in advance of publication.

Action

Secretariat to circulate embargoed copy of the analysis report to members as soon as available.

​​​​​​​The team have drafted instructions and sought internal advice from Scottish Government Legal Department (SGLD). There has been lengthy discussion on some of the more complex proposals and await further advice. Some of the more straight forward changes have been forwarded to Parliamentary Counsel Office (PCO) to be drafted into actual legislation.

​​​​​​​It is important to note that we are still in fairly early stages and don’t yet have approval for the Bill.  It will need to be approved by Cabinet and then checked for legal competence before we get a timeline or any more detailed information on a potential bill. We are currently bound by Minister for Parliamentary Business about what we are allowed to say at this time.

​​​​​​​What we can say at the moment is that everything instructed by the children’s hearings redesign team was in the consultation but not everything consulted on has been instructed. We are developing a narrative to explain the thinking where we have not instructed legislative changes.

​​​​​​​The team have had deep dives with the Miniter for Children, Young People and The Promise, these sessions have focused on making her aware of any potentially controversial areas of the proposals and making sure she is content with the direction of travel.

​​​​​​​Laura Caven questioned the role of the board, if not to look at the analysis of the consultation and provide advice on the future legislation development. Lindsey Byrne agreed with this expressing feeling like an observer rather than having influence over the work being taken forward.

​​​​​​​Emma confirmed the role of the board was to provide oversight and governance for the practice side of children’s hearings redesign while the Scottish Government will develop the legislative proposals on behalf of Ministers. A huge amount of work is being taken forward by the Planning Group, but it has taken longer than expected to develop a comprehensive work plan.  A plan of work will be developed and circulated in advance of the next meeting.   

​​​​​​​It is important everyone feels involved in the work and feel engaged. The draft policy instructions have included a number of quotes from Social Work Scotland, COSLA, Children’s Hearings Scotland and Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration to help demonstrate impact. Brian assured members they will still be opportunity for the Board to provide feedback to the Minister.  Engagement sessions will be set up with members to discuss potential legislative changes. 

Planning Group update

​​​​​​​John Urquhart provided an update from the Planning Group.

​​​​​​​It was agreed that the planning and preparing for hearings project should be passed onto the project team to deliver the work. The group agreed that Claire Gibson, CHS and Roma Bruce Davies SCRA will be the SRO for the project, a project lead was nominated but is yet to be confirmed. The project team will be asked to develop a draft implementation plan before the June Redesign Board.

​​​​​​​John noted that he has had meetings with SWS and have discussed how the project process seems to be overly bureaucratic and not something either SWS or COSLA are used to working with. Neil Hunter suggested that SCRA and CHS have expertise and capacity to support the programme management processes, to allow COSLA and SWS to focus their efforts in getting the appropriate professional and practice expertise.

​​​​​​​Emma advised the Scottish Government has secured additional capacity to support the redesign team and the board at their request. Elaine Adams is currently seconded to CELCIS has agreed to provide support to the board and/or any of the partner organisations. She is currently looking into updating the single source.

​​​​​​​There was some discussion at the recently planning group that the Culture project should be an overarching principle or aim being threaded through each of the individual projects rather than a project in itself. This could also be the case of the data and information project, although this could also sit with the redesign board rather than the planning group.

​​​​​​​The Board agreed the culture and data, and information projects should sit with the redesign board, further work will be undertaken by the planning group and brought back to the next Board meeting.

Action 

The chair asked if a written update from the planning group could be provided to the board in advance of any future meetings.

Vision paper

​​​​​​​Emma circulated a paper which drew together some of the work done previous by groups such as Children’s Hearings Improvement Partnership (CHIP) on vision and vales and possessed some high level questions. Members had previously agreed there is a need to have a clear vision that everyone can get behind. 

​​​​​​​Elliot Jackson agreed the questions posed in the paper were valid, but there is also an opportunity to do something different, something that inspires, grabs attention and is social media savvy.

​​​​​​​The board discussed the possibility of making a short film, a story board of what will the hearings system look like in 5 years’ time, how can we ensure the board is seen as ambitious? The video produced by Our Hearings Our Voice (OHOV) has been an inspiration.

​​​​​​​It was agreed there is a need to demonstrate leaders are active, engaged and working collaboratively across traditional organisation boundaries, not protecting self-interests. Thie vision should be something that unites the sector and brings along partners, beyond the board, particularly organisations who participate in CHIP. It should set out what work is being undertaken now and, in the future, demonstrating sequencing and reflecting an evolving workplan, tying into the Promise 2030 timeline.

​​​​​​​Members agreed to provide three key principles, the secretariat will pull these together and draft a high level vision statement for the board to comment on in advance of the next meeting on 23 April 2025.

AOCB

​​​​​​​Neil noted there is a workforce plan for health and social care, one for children and families social work and volunteer panel members, but there are subsections to these which will impact on the children’s hearing system. The board need to be aware of the potential impact the fragility of the workforce could have on redesign of the system.

​​​​​​​Lindsey Byrne agreed that retention in the workforce is a real issue, bad experiences can have a significant impact on staff wellbeing and willingness to continue working with children and families. Adult and justice social work can be seen as a preferable option.

​​​​​​​Work on culture and the vision may help to address some of these issues but may be worth discussing with Office of the Chief Social Work Adviser (OCSWA) and the Children and Families Leadership Group as it is likely this topic will arise during evidence sessions for the potential bill. There is a subgroup of leadership group which now have a change model in place.  Secretariat will set up discussion with OCSWA and the secretariat for the Children and Families Leadership Group to discuss how this can be handled within the Bill process. 

Date of next meeting

​​​​​​​Wednesday 23 April 2025 at 11:30 in St Andrew’s House.