Attendees and apologies
Attendees – board members
- Hugh McAloon (HM) Scottish Government (Co-chair)
- Nicola Dickie (ND) Cosla (Co-chair)
- Angela Davidson, Scottish Government (AD)
- Angela Scott (AS), SOLACE
- Alex Pirrie (AP), Integration Joint Board (IJB) Network
- Morven Graham (MG), Association of Scottish Principal Educational Psychologists (ASPEP)
- Carrie Lindsay (CL), Association of Directors of Education in Scotland (ADES) (CL)
- Judy Thomson (JT), NHS Education for Scotland (NES)
- Michael Chalmers (MC), Director of Children and Families, Scottish Government
- Beccie White (BW), Scottish Youth Parliament
- Abbie Wright (AW), Scottish Youth Parliament
- Erin Campbell (EC), Scottish Youth Parliament
- Rosy Burgess (RB) on behalf of Kirsty Morrison (supporting YP, Scottish Youth Parliament
- Paul Carberry (PC), Coalition of Care and Support Providers in Scotland (CCPS) Forum representative
- Cathy Richards (CR), Mental Health and Social Care Directorate, Scottish Government
- Alison Taylor (AT), Deputy Director: Improvement Attainment and Wellbeing, Learning Directorate, Scottish Government
- Hugh Masters (HM), Perinatal and Infant Mental Health Programme Board
- Cheryl Burnett (CB), National Parent Forum of Scotland (NPFS)
- Laura Meikle (LM), Improvement Attainment and Wellbeing, Learning Directorate, Scottish Government
- Paul Carberry (PC) Coalition of Care and Support Providers in Scotland (CCPS) forum - (Action for Children)
- Martin Dorchester (MD) Children in Scotland (CiS) Forum representative - INCLUDEM
- David Gibson (DG), Social Work Scotland
- Fiona Myers (FM) Public Health Scotland
- Jane Ford (JF), Public Health Scotland
- Gavin Gray (GG), Scottish Government
- Jamie Sinclair (JS), Scottish Government
- Healther Alison (HA), Scottish Government
- Lee Wilson (LW), (on behalf of Angela Leitch), Service Manager, Public Mental Health
- Stephen McLeod (SM), Mental Wellbeing and Social Care Directorate, Scottish Government
- Peter Innes (PI), Mental Wellbeing and Social Care Directorate, Scottish Government
- Neil Guy (NG), Mental Wellbeing and Social Care Directorate, Scottish Government
- David Leitch (DL), Mental Wellbeing and Social Care Directorate, Scottish Government
- Jean Carwood-Edwards (JCE), Mental Wellbeing and Social Care Directorate, Scottish Government
- Carolyn Wales (CW), Mental Wellbeing and Social Care Directorate, Scottish Government
- Mariana Soto-Pacheo (MSP), Mental Wellbeing and Social Care Directorate, Scottish Government
- Emma Papakyriakou (EP) Mental Wellbeing and Social Care Directorate, Scottish Government
Items and actions
Whilst we try to make sure that JDB documents are accessible as possible for everyone we recognise that some language we might use is specific to the subject being discussed. Young people on the board have put together this helpful A-Z glossary of terms we use often if you would like to check any terminology.
Welcome and introductions
Chair provided an introduction, welcomed everyone to the Board and introduced new members.
Chair noted forthcoming departures from the Board. He thanked AP for all her input at both at Board level and as sponsor of Task and Finish group 4. Chair also thanked BW for all her contributions at Board level, the development of the CYP friendly resources and the video produced and wished them both well in their future.
Chair provided a summary of the developments since the previous meeting:
- the Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care and COSLA leaders met a few weeks ago for the second time to discuss progress of the Joint Delivery Board and the Task and Finish groups
- Ministers have taken into consideration the recommendation provided by this Board to endorse an independent evaluation of new and enhanced community-based support and services for children and young people. This work has been commissioned to the Youth Parliament to undertake
- the link to the JDB March newsletter has been shared. Members were asked to share as far and wide as possible to their networks
- a workshop took place in January to hear more and provide input into the development of an innovative and accessible Psychological Early Intervention Service. The chair thanked the members for their valuable input
- another workshop recently took place to hear more about the role of the third sector in innovating and delivering preventive support to children, young people and their families, in relation to the focus areas of the Task and Finish Groups. Thanks to CiS and CCPS forum members for organising this event
- Public Health Scotland (PHS) has developed a set of mental health indicators for children and young people (along with another set for adults), which builds on the 2011 set of children and young people’s mental health indicators. PHS published the indicator sets and rationale papers on their website on Tuesday 22nd March and will to publish data later in 2022
- HM highlighted the commitment within Programme for Government to revisit and refresh the Mental Health Strategy. Engagement has begun through a serious of workshops. We will look to set up an engagement session with board members shortly
Task and Finish groups – reporting templates
At the last meeting, members agreed that a dashboard highlighting and summarising progress and linkages across the Task and Finish Groups would be helpful. Officials thanked the members who contributed to this
Chair invited official to provide an update on the dashboard. Main points included:
- dashboard is a visual representation of high level information
- important to ensure that challenges are highlighted but also the key achievements
- not everything from the Reporting Templates can be included. More detailed information can be found in the Reporting Templates
- going forward Task and Finish Group’s milestones will be updated, plus links to relevant work from other parts of the Scottish Government
Members comments included:
- dashboard is really helpful. Suggestion that if Task and Finish groups unable to meet their milestones, these could be highlighted in the dashboard which would enable members to provide support when required
- interdependency was highlighted and the need to understand links between Task and Finish Groups’ work and the wider context
- official agreed with the importance of linking our mental health agenda with the broader policy and delivery landscape - important to take every opportunity to highlight this. The Information Bulletin has been welcomed in providing wider context. Agreed to keep other mechanisms for joining up under review
- helpful to highlight the links between Scottish Government programmes on children and young people’s mental health and wellbeing
- important to consider an exit strategy for the Board and what we want next, both locally and nationally
Chair invited the three Task and Finish Groups (1, 2 and 3) that were looking for direct input, to present their questions/comments to the Board. Board members were invited to note progress, raise any points they wished to clarify and confirm agreement with the direction of travel across templates.
Engagement officers update and MSYPs update
Chair Invited the MSYP reps to provide an update.
SG official provided the following comments on the YP’s experience as part of the Board:
- highlighted that they felt most meetings were accessible to young people and that they were pleased with the contributions made during their tenure
- also noted in relation to questions presented to the Board on Task and Finish group 3, that by involving young people in shaping policy and services we can raise the voices of seldom heard young people
- importantly pointed out that YP are not a homogenous group
- YP thanked the Board for including them
MSYP provided a summary of the outcomes of the two recent consultation workshops lead by young people in the Scottish Youth Parliament. These were based on engagement questions raised by the Leads from Task and Finish Groups. A summary of the main insights from the December workshop was provided in a blogpost and published in the Board’s March newsletter.
SG official introduced herself and colleague as the new Engagement Officers for the Board. Highlighted their focus on building on what was previously done and reaching seldom heard groups. Currently working on the wider engagement with children and young people which will be undertaken through partner organisations in two phases – firstly a survey then further qualitative work. Will engage with children and young people from 8 to 25 yr old.
Principles and standards - Quality and Safety Board
Chair invited SG officials to provide an update on the work of the Quality and Safety Board on Quality Standards.
Members discussed principles, standards and specifications which exist or are in development, to support adult and children and young people’s mental health. Comments included:
- important to understand relationship between principles, standards and service specifications across mental health services
- the value of consistent definitions when referring to principles, standards and service specifications.
- discussions with the Board indicated differing understandings between sectors that it would be valuable to understand
- work of the Quality & Safety Board is creating a framework which pulls these together.
- importance of appropriate measurement to support understanding of how standards support people engaging with services and clinicians in practice
- they should enable a more consistent approach to delivering quality services
COSLA official provided an update on the Evaluation currently lead by Public Health Scotland. Also asked if there were any comments and if the members were happy for them to continue with this work. Members agreed that this work should continue, noting its relevance to an exit strategy and links with the Outcomes Framework for Children & Young People and local plans .
Items on school counselling, community mental health support and perinatal mental health have been delayed to the next meeting.
AOB and close
The next meeting is scheduled for 29 June 2022.
HM thanked all for attending and drew the meeting to a close.
ensure crisis support is available 24/7 to children and young people
to note progress, raise any points they wish to clarify and confirm content with the direction of travel with the change request noted in the template.
- TFG2 has conducted a mapping exercise that involved 32 local authorities to understand the mental health service provision for children and young people
- the mapping was done using the principles provided by children and young people
- the second piece of work was due to be the development of a set of principles
- wondered about the added value of having specific principles for crisis services and how close they are to other sets of principles and specifications with the exception of one regarding 24/7 service provision
- asked for the view of the Board regarding having a specific set of principles for crisis services or not
- expect principles to hang together. Interventions might vary but principles would be similar
- need to ensure that process across the country, recognising that what works in one place might not be helpful in other. The challenge is to bring all these standards across the landscape
- helpful to have principles/standards that are agreed across sectors, also agree these need not too be overly prescriptive as to how they are delivered, so they can work across contexts
- members agreed the need to have common principles that are widely applicable in different contexts and to build upon GIRFEC (Getting It Right For Every Child).
- need to identify and address gaps in services
- navigation of mental health services for children and families is a common issue which should be addressed
support mental health pathways and services for vulnerable children and young people, aligned to the work of the Promise
Task and Finish group 3 ask that the Board consider the three work packages and provide any additional feedback that they may have. In addition, to provide approval for the establishment of two smaller working groups to take forward work packages 1 and 2.
- important to consider how to add value in a crowded policy landscape
- presented three pieces of work to take forward:
- to design a resource with key principles for the workforce to work with care-experienced children and young people that would be embedded in the existing training pathways
- to capture existing good practice and emerging practice
- set out ambitions for future work with care-experienced population in terms of mental health support and create a set of recommendations
- DG raised his views on the concept of ‘vulnerable’ children as a distinct population
Member’s comments included:
- apparent lack of coordination of mental health support for care-experienced children and young people. They can be caught in the intersection between mental health and social care
- there has been an anecdotal rise in suicide attempts by young girls during the pandemic and pressure in the system around secure care/ alternatives to secure care for those in crisis. The group should consider how it can be responsive to emerging needs
- suggestion that we restrict the deliverable to care-experienced people. This was questioned on the basis of whether it would align with The Promise’s focus on keeping children and young people out of care too
- size of the task is larger than this Task and Finish group and needs consideration of what can be done by December
- given other work on this key group, Task and Finish group needs to focus on how it can add value.
- agreed with the need to specify why young people are vulnerable to ensure that the support provided is adequate. Also need to consider intersectionality to understand vulnerability
developing a programme of education and training to increase the skills and knowledge required by all staff to support children and young people's mental health
To note progress, raise any points they wish to clarify and confirm content with the direction of travel. In addition, the lead/sponsor would appreciate any feedback/comments and prioritisation on progressing each of the areas outlined in the template.
- JT provided an update on three areas of progress where the group is looking to receive support and comments from the Board
Members comments included:
- potential to link up proposed toolkits
- consider possibility of having a regular space for Sponsors and Leads to catch up and facilitate links
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