UNCRC Implementation Embedding in Public Services Group minutes: 18 November 2024

Attendees and apologies

• Lyndsey Saki, Scottish Government (Chair) – LS

• Liz Levy, Scottish Government – LL

• Joe Smith, Scottish Government – JS

• Ezhilarasi Mahadevan, Scottish Government (minutes) – EM

• Aqeel Ahmed, Scottish Government – AA

• Fatoumata Drammeh, UNICEF UK – FD

• Nick Targontsidis, NHS Education for Scotland (NES) – NT

• Darren Little, Dumfries and Galloway Council – DL

• Rebecca Spillane, The Improvement Service – RS

• Maria Doyle, Together Scotland – MD

• Eloise Di Gianni, Observatory for Children’s Human Rights Scotland – EDG

• Laura Crossan, Police Scotland - LC

Apologies

• Rachel Fox, UNICEF UK

• Luiza Leite, Scottish Government

Items and actions

Welcome and introductions

LS welcomed first time attendees, Joe Smith and Ezhilarasi Mahadevan from Scottish Government. Apologies received were also noted.

Minutes and actions from previous meeting

Minutes from the previous meeting of 20 May are still to be circulated with members and have not yet been made available on the group page. LS noted this will be actioned before the next meeting.

There was an action to update on the work regarding child rights indicators, as requested earlier this year. There was another action to check with colleagues about sharing information on the child rights and wellbeing impact assessment (CRWIA) relevance test related to the proposed amendment from May. Both these actions will be covered in the next two meeting items.

Update on UNCRC Act

JS outlined that the SG will be introducing a Bill to amend the current legislation to require that pupils’ views are considered when parents or carers are exercising their right to withdraw their child from religious observance (RO) and religious and moral education (RME) in schools, to further strengthen our commitment to upholding children’s rights in all aspects of their lives, including education.

Through this Bill, we are also proposing to add an exemption to the section 6 duty under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Act 2024. This duty requires public authorities not to act in a way that is incompatible with the UNCRC requirements in the Act.

The exemption would make clear that the compatibility duty does not apply if a public authority is delivering its functions under provisions in other legislation that prevent them from acting compatibly. Without this exemption, public authorities could potentially be left having to decide whether to act in a way that puts them in breach of the compatibility duty in the UNCRC Act or to act in a way that puts them in breach of the legislation that conferred their statutory duty. That uncertainty undermines legal coherence.

The rationale for this amendment includes:

• ensuring legal coherence and minimising complexity for public authorities in interpreting their duties
• avoiding conflicts where public authorities might need to choose between complying with existing statutory duties and the compatibility duty under the UNCRC Act
• mirroring similar provisions in the Human Rights Act to prevent potential disruptions in delivering essential services

LL stressed the need for meaningful and fair measures that do not impose undue burdens on public authorities. Engaging with groups like SOLAR (Scottish Local Authority Lawyers and Administrators) and local authority representatives was suggested to refine the approach and assess the amendment's potential impact.

The consensus was to maintain ongoing dialogue with public authorities to gather feedback and prepare a robust rationale for the proposed exemption, ensuring alignment with broader legal and operational considerations.

Next steps

•  Together will engage with children and young people to explain the rationale and reassure them that the amendment does not undermine the policy intentions of the original UNCRC Act
• consulting public authorities, particularly regarding the Children and Young People Scotland Commissioner’s (CYPCS) suggestion to include a reporting duty for cases where authorities must act incompatibly with UNCRC requirements
• ongoing discussions are being held with Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (COSLA) representatives, the UNCRC implementation Strategic Implementation Board (SIB), and public authorities. Group members were encouraged to share their views or reach out for further discussions

The proposed amendment from May relating to CRWIAs is no longer going ahead and so the proposed relevance test is no longer applicable.

Update on the child rights indicator work

JS updated on the development of indicators for UNCRC Articles 37 and 40 on youth justice. Plans to fund a PhD student were postponed due to budget constraints, but internal resources have been allocated. An analyst is now drafting a project initiation document to scope the work and assess data availability and gaps against a set of international children’s rights indicators that were developed by academics.

A group led by Strathclyde University, focusing on youth justice operational issues, has been engaged to provide insights into the project.

LL reiterated the importance of a measured approach to avoid unnecessary complexity and ensure the feasibility of data collection by public authorities. She noted the aim is to leverage existing data as proxies for indicators where possible.

JS noted that this work remains a key priority, and further updates will be shared as it develops.

Broader considerations and feedback

• NT highlighted the need to involve health boards in discussions on the reporting process, particularly giving consideration to other legislation in areas like mental health. Health boards aim to help shape practical and effective reporting mechanisms
•  DL highlighted the challenge of integrating multiple indicators sets across policy and legislative areas, suggesting that aligning them with existing frameworks would simplify the process and prevent duplication
• RS mentioned ongoing work on local government benchmarking and statutory duties, which could inform the development of child rights indicators, and offered to contribute relevant materials to the discussions
• DL emphasised the importance of indicators in assessing the effectiveness of the rights agenda, supporting the initiative but stressing the need to consider the broader strategic implications of adding new indicators and aligning them with existing frameworks
• LS agreed with this perspective, highlighting that while developing indicators is crucial, the approach should be strategic and efficient. Additional workload should be minimised by utilising existing data and resources; introducing new elements only when necessary to meet objectives
• The group agreed on the need for the indicator framework to be meaningful and manageable for public authorities.

Next steps

• Stakeholders will continue to explore ways to integrate child rights indicators with existing frameworks to streamline the reporting process
•  Public authorities, including health boards and local government, will be further engaged to ensure practical and meaningful application of indicators

Coordination between stakeholders, such as through the local authority UNCRC Peer Support Network meeting in December, will be pursued to gather feedback and align efforts.LS suggested revisiting the progress on indicators in a future meeting once significant advancements have been made

Update on support to public authorities

Statutory guidance

LS provided an update on statutory guidance related to the UNCRC Act:

• Part 2 guidance was published on 13 September, and Part 3 (Section 18) guidance followed on 19 September
•  the guidance was significantly updated based on consultation feedback
• the consultation analysis report is forthcoming, with a child-friendly version to be published subsequently

Children’s rights skills and knowledge framework (S and KF)

LS reported on the progress of the S and KF:

• the launch has been delayed due to ongoing work with suppliers to ensure the framework best supports public authority staff in adopting a children’s human rights approach
•  interim PDF versions of the framework and training plan are being prepared following the publication of statutory guidance
•  work is underway to reconfigure project outputs, and a launch of an interactive digital version is being targeted for the next financial year, subject to budget availability
•  the digital launch will require user testing and an accessibility review to ensure a user-friendly and accessible framework

Innovation fund

LS shared updates on the UNCRC innovation fund:

•  eight projects were approved for funding in September 2023. A diverse panel of young people, supported by Corra and Youth Scotland, played a key role in the decision-making process
•  projects span various sectors, including local authority, justice, health, and education, with a focus on groups most at risk of having their rights unmet
• funded projects include a range of beneficiaries such as ethnic minority children, children with additional support needs, refugees and asylum seekers, children living in poverty, and children in secure residential care.
• A learning exchange held on 8 October showcased inspiring updates from funded projects.

Project highlights

LS highlighted two projects:

South Lanarkshire council pathfinders programme

• aimed at providing early support to young people facing barriers to participation in education or on the edges of care
• includes a personal development programme to create a leadership group that designs and leads consultation events across seven high schools
• the leadership group will host a conference to share life experiences, barriers faced, and support needed to influence future policy and provision
•  the Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise, Natalie Don-Innes visited the project in July where she heard from young people about the project and how its had a positive impact in their lives

Dundee city council and NHS Tayside collaboration

• created a booklet titled Hello in There Wee One to support parents in bonding with their unborn children
• focused on parents-to-be and children at higher risk, including young parents, ethnic minority families, and those affected by poverty or substance use
• resources and learning from the project will be shared as part of the broader UNCRC national improvement programme

Next steps

• remaining projects will run up to December 2024, with outputs and lessons learned contributing to the UNCRC national improvement programme
• project outputs will be used to share creative approaches to embedding child rights-based practices across culture, policy, and practice

Update on the Regulation and Improvement Action Group (RIAG) and engagement with listed authorities (AA)

• engagement with Scottish Youth Parliament(SYP) – The RIAG heard from the SYP on participation work and support for regulators
•  in December, the education inspectorate in Ireland will present their whole-organisation children’s rights framework and journey-model approach
• work is underway on a paper highlighting regulators’ influence on embedding children’s rights in their sectors

Update on peer network for listed authorities

•  a peer network for public authorities listed in section 19 of the UNCRC Act (excluding health and local government) has convened twice. The network facilitates sharing of good practices, challenges, and solutions
• the initial meeting introduced members and assessed their children’s rights journeys, followed by a second meeting focused on participation with input from the SYP. Future sessions will cover children’s rights and well-being impact assessments, highlighting good practices and internal insights
• collaboration is ongoing in creating suitable resources, with input invited from the group

Discussions on the update from AA

•  attendee raised concerns about the lack of clear guidance for multi-agency collaboration on children’s rights, emphasising that individual organisations are expected to deliver on rights without strong multi-agency frameworks
• LS acknowledged the point and suggested involving the RIAG to explore the issue, noting the challenges of partnership working and capacity building
• AA agreed, highlighting the shared responsibilities among organisations like the Scottish Social Services Council (SSSC), and the care inspectorate. He emphasised the importance of collaboration and will work on strengthening collaboration between organisations to avoid siloed efforts and enhance shared practice

Action 1: LS to explore whether the RIAG could inform potential guidance on supporting children’s rights through multi-agency working.

Update on ongoing work related to children’s rights within health boards:

NT provided an update on ongoing work related to children’s rights within NHS.

Engagement and sessions:

•  NT highlighted successful 30-minute sessions with staff across different job families, held at various times to allow wide participation. Over 2,000 people have attended
•  currently supporting six boards with senior management sessions and three boards with resource creation

Focused conversations:

•  discussions have been held on adult services’ role in children’s rights, challenges, and opportunities, as well as national boards’ implementation (e.g., Public Health Scotland)
•  strategic leads from Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services (CAMHS) were brought together to address strengths and gaps in mental health services

Partnership work:

• collaboration with organisations like Children’s Parliament, SYP, and Association for Real Change (ARC) Scotland on issues such as transitions for children with disabilities

Workforce development:

• the Children’s Rights Learning Hub offers e-learning and resources for embedding children’s rights, with upcoming webinars on health access, participation, and transitions for disabled young people

Systems change and impact assessments:

• collaboration with finance leads on budgeting and integrating children’s rights, alongside work on child friendly complaints and impact assessments across boards

Operational planning:

•  children’s rights are being integrated into operational planning, with a focus on reviewing decisions through this lens

Future needs:

• NT emphasised the need for focused discussions on cross-agency issues such as mental health, inspections, and justice for children in secure care or the justice system
•  the ongoing work aims to embed children’s rights across systems, with a focus on collaboration, workforce development, and addressing thematic issues

Discussion on update from NL

•  LS expressed interest in NT's work on reviewing operational plans through a children's rights lens, suggesting that the Regulation Improvement Working Group might be interested in this and that further connections could be made depending on how the work develops
•  NT shared that recent changes to statutory guidance were well received by health boards, with positive feedback on how the guidance had improved and become more useful. He emphasised that the focus was not on seeking additional funding, but rather on using existing resources effectively to uphold children's rights. He highlighted the importance of children’s rights impact assessments moving forward

Update on local authorities

RS provided an overview of the ongoing work with local authorities, focusing on raising awareness of the UNCRC and its legislative requirements. Some local authorities are still in the early stages, requiring presentations and deeper discussions, while others are progressing towards creating action plans and governance structures to support children's rights.

The work has expanded to multi-agency partnerships, including Health and Social Care Partnerships (HSPCs) and Community Planning Partnerships (CPPs), where there’s growing interest in understanding the legislation and exploring how it supports local authority work. Local authorities are also developing their understanding of children’s rights through resources like the “Getting Ready for UNCRC Incorporation” and their peer network discussions, covering topics such as impact assessments, independent advocacy, procurement, and community involvement.

RS highlighted the work with six local authorities on children’s rights budgeting and the challenges faced by local authorities, especially regarding limited resources to implement children's rights work, including capacity for reporting, performance indicators, and participation efforts.

An example was shared from a local authority working group, which has successfully integrated children's rights into various projects, including child friendly planning, travel passports for children with complex needs, and guidance on creating child friendly documents.

RS noted that despite resource constraints, many local authorities are making significant progress with strong leadership and without additional funding. There is an ongoing need for practical resources and guidance on implementing the UNCRC effectively.

Upcoming events were mentioned, including webinars on children's rights and homelessness, training on children’s rights with Forces Families Scotland, and a seminar in February.

RS emphasised that the work being done shows significant progress despite the challenges, with leadership commitment being key. Further case studies on leadership and resource-efficient implementation will be shared.

LS suggested sharing the example of the local authority’s child friendly housing strategy with the Housing Regulator if the authority agrees, as it could serve as a useful model for others.

Discussion on the terms of reference (ToR) for this group

LS opened the discussion on the terms of reference and the group's future, noting that the group has entered a new phase, with UNCRC implementation now underway. LS asked for feedback on the purpose of the group: ‘to support the embedding of children’s rights in public services and assist public authorities in implementing the UNCRC.’

LS also noted that there have been discussions with UNCRC SIB members on the future of the board, and relevant insights will be shared. LS acknowledged that some actions included in the ToRs have been completed, some are in progress, and some may no longer be relevant.

RS agreed that many specific actions have already been delivered.

Attendees agreed that the group's purpose remains relevant but emphasised the need to better align meetings with this purpose.

Sharing intelligence and feedback

LS proposed including a requirement in the terms of reference for members to share intelligence and feedback on their implementation experiences, as this would help to 1) highlight gaps in public authorities' capabilities for further discussion and 2) inform the group's work and resource development.

Suggestions made by attendees:

• focus on practical support and approaches: Attendees suggested that the group should distinguish its role from the SIB, which focuses on strategic-level decisions
• two-way feedback mechanism: NT emphasised the importance of a feedback loop between this group and the SIB to align strategic priorities with practical realities and ensure actions and responses are documented
•  collaboration and thematic focus: NT stressed the importance of working collaboratively on thematic issues identified by children and young people and suggested creating shared plans to address recurring issues across various partnerships
• guidance on listed authority children’s rights reports: DL proposed that the group could guide listed authority children’s rights reports (due as soon as practicable from 1 April 2026) to ensure coherence and avoid duplication, balancing flexibility and consistency in reporting formats
• extend group membership: AA proposed extending the group's membership to include representatives from other listed authorities to capture diverse contributions to the rights agenda

Next steps

• aligning activities: LS agreed that the group should focus on addressing practical needs and share implementation experiences, while aligning its activities to avoid overlap with the SIB
•  updating terms of reference: LS acknowledged the need to update the terms of reference to reflect connections with the Children’s Rights Scheme and other initiatives, incorporating intelligence sharing and identifying gaps/needs for capability building. She also invited further input on the group's future focus and processes
•  support for reporting consistency: LS recognised the need for further consideration on supporting reporting consistency, agreeing to explore options, such as seminars or guidance, to help listed authorities
• structured approach to reports: LS acknowledged the limited resources allocated to analysing past reports but expressed plans for a more structured approach with future UNCRC Act reports
• collaboration and thematic focus in meetings: LS acknowledged the need for collaboration and a thematic focus in meetings. She proposed updating the terms of reference to reflect the shift toward supporting public authorities in adopting a children's human rights approach aligned with the Children’s Rights Scheme
• review of membership: It was agreed to review the current membership list and consider including additional representatives to ensure diverse stakeholder involvement

Action 2: LS to draft an updated version of the ToRs, incorporating suggestions, and send to members for comment. This will include an updated membership list, with additional listed authorities

Action 3: analysis Efforts: Explore resource allocation for analysing rights reports and thematic trends

Any other business

• LL announced an upcoming progress report on the UNCRC Implementation Programme (2021–2024), expected on World Children’s Day
• LS updated on the children’s rights skills and knowledge framework development. An interim PDF and Word versions of the framework and training plan will be shared before transitioning to an interactive digital version in the next financial year
• attendees highlighted the launch of new training modules for multi-agency practitioners on children’s rights, scheduled for early December
• MD shared details about Together’s participatory report on children’s rights, to be launched on December 6, which incorporates inputs from over 200 children
• attendees suggested mapping the relationships between the embedding group and other relevant groups (e.g., SIB, awareness-raising group, C and F National Leadership Group) to strengthen pathways and align efforts

Date of next meeting

Tentatively scheduled for Monday, February 17, 2025, subject to potential date adjustments to accommodate holiday schedules.