Reimagining Secure Care Governance Group minutes: February 2023

Minutes of the meeting held on 28 February 2023.

Attendees and apologies

  • Liz Murdoch (Chair), Scottish Government (SG) Youth Justice
  • Alison Melville, SG Youth Justice
  • Maureen Roberts (Project lead & secretariat), Children’s and Young People’s Centre for Justice (CYCJ)
  • Donna McEwan, CYCJ
  • Fiona Dyer, CYCJ
  • Kate Tobin, Dartington Design Lab
  • Katie Upsdale, Dartington Design Lab
  • Jillian Gibson, Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, (COSLA)
  • Ben Farrugia, Social Work Scotland (SWS)


  • Vivien Thomson, SWS
  • Tom McNamara, SG Youth Justice and Children’s Hearings

Items and actions


Liz welcomed everyone and advised that Tom will take over as chair of the group.

Previous minutes and actions

Previous minutes agreed with no amendments or actions carried forward.

Items not on the current agenda:

  • Maureen to arrange visits to secure care centres
  • Liz no comments or suggestions were received regarding membership or terms or reference (ToR)

Confirm terms of reference and membership

Several members felt that the wording within the ToR describing the work of the project was too narrow in terms of the involvement of stakeholders which should be wider than those “who refer” children to secure care. Maureen will amend the ToR and Project Plan to ensure that the breadth reflects the involvement of all who support children and young people before, during and after secure care to make it clear that the focus goes beyond secure care centres.

The group raised no issues regarding current membership.

Project team update

Maureen updated that the project team have visited the Good Shepherd Centre and St Marys Kenmure, with dates organised to visit Rossie and Kibble. Maureen is still awaiting contact from Mark Crawford in Edinburgh. Alison advised that the visits were well received by the secure care centres who are keen to collaborate with the project. Alison to contact Mark Crawford regarding arranging a visit from the project team. Maureen advised that there has been a lot of interest regarding the project with the team meeting various stakeholders who wish to know more and get involved. Donna and Liz recently met with Gerry Michie and his team in Polmont to consider profiles of children in Young Offender Institution (YOI) and relevant issues for secure care.

Working alongside Dartington Design Lab, the focus has been on stakeholder and thematic mapping to consider priorities for the project and to inform the structure of virtual stakeholder consultation sessions. The first of which have been arranged for week commencing 20 March 2023 with 3 arranged for Social Work (SW) and 2 for Chief Social Work Officer (CSWO). Vivien from SWS has been supporting the project team with sharing details and promoting sessions.

Reflective exercise

Kate facilitated the group through a virtual reflective exercise in relation to the Reimagining Secure Care Project which led to a discussion regarding the scope of the project and whether this should include children deprived of their liberty in NHS facilities such as Foxgrove. Members considered whether this scope would be too broad within the timescales and reach of the project. Liz advised that the scope cannot be too broad as links need to made across the wider care agenda, however she agreed to clarify with Tom.

Member feedback and issues

Members felt the reflective session using the Miro board was useful and generated discussion and reflection about the project. Liz suggested that it could be useful for a similar session to be facilitated at the in person Secure Care Group meeting on 23 March 2023.

Maureen to meet with Liz and Alison to agree an agenda.

Next steps - key actions and timescales

  • Maureen to update ToR and project plan to reflect the breadth of stakeholder involvement in the project
  • Alison to contact Mark Crawford regarding project preliminary visit to Edinburgh Secure Care Centre
  • project team to design virtual consultation sessions for CSWO and SW
  • Secure Care Group Meeting on 23 March 2023
  • Liz to clarify scope of the project in terms of health and mental health services with Tom

Any other business

Maureen asked for clarification about the promotion of the project on CYCJ’s social media and other communications channels. Liz advised that given the sensitive nature of the work, it would not be appropriate to promote the work of the project at this time.

Date of next meeting

It was agreed that the group would meet again on Teams following the next Secure Care Group Meeting in March 2023.

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