Humza Yousaf MSP and Martin Griffith meeting minutes: FOI release

Information request and response under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002.

FOI reference: FOI/17/01441
Date received: 20 June 2017
Date responded: 18 July 2017

Information requested

The minutes from the meeting held between Humza Yousaf MSP and Martin Griffith on 30 March 2017. All correspondence before and after this meeting relating to the meeting.


The meeting you referred to took place at the Parliament between Mr Humza Yousaf, Minister for Transport and the Islands, and Martin Griffith, Chief Executive of Stagecoach Group, and sitting in was a Transport Scotland official, Peter Grant.

There was no agenda as it was an introductory meeting and no formal minutes were taken during or after the meeting although Mr Grant sent an internal email on 30 March 2017 with a summary of discussions.

With regards to pre-meeting briefing I enclose a copy of the ministerial submission prepared ahead of the meeting for the Minister. Some information has been redacted and the reasons are explained below.

Reasons for not providing information

An exemption under section 33(1)(b) of FOISA (commercial interests). This exemption applies because disclosure of this particular information would, or would be likely to, prejudice substantially the commercial interests of Stagecoach Group.

This exemption is subject to the 'public interest test'. Therefore, taking account of all the circumstances of this case, we have considered if the public interest in disclosing the information outweighs the public interest in applying the exemption. We have found that, on balance, the public interest lies in favour of upholding the exemption. We recognise that there is a public interest in disclosing information as part of open, transparent and accountable government, and to help account for expenditure of public money. However, there is greater public interest in protecting the commercial interests of companies.

Alongside this briefing I have also provided a paper supplied by Mr Griffith following the meeting with the Minister.

The notes of the meeting circulated by Mr Grant on 30 March 2017 however are deemed to be exempt from FOI under section 30(c) of FOISA (prejudice to effective conduct of public affairs) applies to some of the information requested. It is essential for Ministers to be able to meet often in confidence, with external stakeholders on a range of issues, including transport policy. Disclosing the information about these meetings, particularly without the consent of the stakeholder, is likely to undermine their trust in the Scottish Government and will substantially inhibit communications on this type of issue in the future. These stakeholders will be reluctant to participate in meetings if they believe that their views are likely to be made public, particularly while these discussions are still ongoing and decisions have not been taken. This would significantly harm the Government's ability to carry out many aspects of its work, and could adversely affect its ability to gather all of the evidence it needs to make fully informed policies.

We recognise that there is a public interest in disclosing information as part of open, transparent and accountable government, and to inform public debate. However, there is a greater public interest in allowing Ministers and officials a private space within which to meet with appropriate external stakeholders as part of the process of exploring and refining the Government's position on transport policy, until the Government as a whole can adopt a policy decision that is sound and likely to be effective. This private space is essential to enable all options to be properly considered, so that good decisions can be taken based on fully informed advice and evidence, such as that provided by bus operators. Premature disclosure is likely to undermine the full and frank discussion of issues between the Scottish Government and these stakeholders, which in turn will undermine the quality of the policy decision making process, which would not be in the public interest.

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Central Enquiry Unit
Phone: 0300 244 4000

The Scottish Government
St Andrew's House
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